歷史的碎片一頁頁飄落
Fragments of History Fall Through the Air Page After Page
每個人都活在自己的經驗世界裡，記者也不例外。2000年，《計算機世界》辦展覽會，時逢我的新書《中國.com》出版，我就被報社派去展臺簽名銷書。當我同別人正聊得高興，一個讀者扯我一下：“你應該重視馬雲。他的阿里巴巴為中小企業開啟了新的外貿通道。他在外經貿部的嘗試也是開創性的，很有意義。”我笑笑，沒將這位讀者的話往心裡去，轉過身繼續閒聊。那時，我心裡滿是三大門戶，滿是王志東、丁磊。
Everyone lives in a world of their own experiences, and a journalist is no different. China Computerworld ran an exhibition in the year 2000. As this coincided with the publication of my new book, "China Dotcom", I was sent by my newspaper to our exhibition booth to sign autographs and promote my book. While I was happily chatting away, a reader tugged on me and said, "You should pay attention to Jack Ma. A new foreign trade channel for SMEs has been opened by his Alibaba. His experiments at MOFTEC were also groundbreaking and inspiring." I laughed and did not take this reader's words to heart. At that time, I was preoccupied with the Three Gateways, Wang Zhidong, and Ding Lei.
我不做外貿，從來不上alibaba.com，所以，2000年7月10日，馬雲出現在《福布斯》封面，媒體報道馬雲是50年來第一位獲此殊榮的中國企業家，對此，我漠然一笑，依然沒將馬雲當回事。
I did no foreign trade and never went on alibaba.com before. Thus, when Jack Ma appeared on the cover of Forbes on the 10th of July 2000, and the media reported that he was the first Chinese entrepreneur in 50 years to receive this honor, I smiled indifferently and continued to not take him seriously.
2002年元旦，我到杭州採訪浙大網新總裁陳純。走在西子湖畔，我突然想起了“好玩”的“西湖論劍”，想起了馬雲。我知道王峻濤和馬雲關係很好，王峻濤是第一屆和第二屆“西湖論劍”嘉賓。我和王峻濤關係也很好。我撥通了王峻濤電話，我說：“我在杭州，我要找馬雲。”王峻濤說：“我馬上讓他打給你。”剛放下電話，馬雲的電話就到了。採訪快結束的時候，馬雲告訴我，他外婆去世，他要趕過去，不能請我吃晚飯。“你今晚要是沒別的安排，我請你喝茶。”
On New Year's Day 2002, I went to Hangzhou to interview the president of Insigma Group, Chen Chun. I suddenly thought of the interesting West Lake Discussions, and of Jack Ma. I knew that Wang Juntao had a very good relationship with Jack Ma. Wang Juntao had been a distinguished guest at the first and second West Lake Discussions. My relationship with Wang Juntao was also very good, and so I called him up and told him I was in Hangzhou and wanted to meet Jack Ma. He told me that he would get Jack Ma to call me right away. Jack Ma called as soon as I put down my phone. When my interview with him was ending, he told me that his maternal grandmother had just passed away and he needed to rush over, and so he would not be able to treat me to dinner, but that if I had no other plans at night, he could treat me to tea.
在西子湖畔茶樓上，最終完成採訪後，馬雲開始和我聊DoNews。他建議DoNews銷售企業ID：“DoNews上多批評，也要給企業一個自己說話的地方和方式。”後來勝天落實了這個主意，就是今天的新聞通。
In the West Lakeside teahouse, after the interview was finally completed, Jack began to chat about DoNews with me. He suggested for DoNews to market enterprise IDs. "There are a lot of critical comments on DoNews. Enterprises should also have a space and way to speak." Subsequently, this idea was realized as what is Xinwentong today.
儘管馬雲給我留下了很好的印象，但回到北京，我一直沒敢動筆寫馬雲。我怕自己在寫一個並不存在的神奇故事。那時，阿里巴巴網站對我而言，依然遙遠的像童話中的“芝麻開門”。我找不到真切感受，找不到“馬雲在美國遭黑社會綁架”的旁證。
Although Jack Ma left a favorable impression on me, I never dared to write about him after returning to Beijing. I was afraid that I would be writing a non-existent magical story. At that time, Alibaba's website remained as distant as the fairy tale's "open sesame" to me. I could not feel it personally, just like I could not find circumstantial evidence that Jack Ma was once kidnapped by an American syndicate.
2003年5月10日，淘寶成立。開始搶奪eBay易趣C2C市場，沒過多久，馬雲就宣稱淘寶已經超過eBay易趣，我笑了笑，心說：“怎麼可能？易趣原來是90%的市場佔有率啊。”
Taobao was established on the 10th of May 2003. It began to snatch away eBay's C2C market, and after not long, Jack Ma declared that Taobao had already surpassed eBay. I laughed and told myself, "How's that possible? eBay's original market share was 90%."
2005年8月17日，雅虎宣佈，以10億美元現金和雅虎中國全部資產為代價，換取馬雲創辦的阿里巴巴40%的股份和35%的投票權，其中雅虎中國資產私下折價6億美元。
On the 17th of August 2005, Yahoo announced that it would pay US$1 billion and all of Yahoo China's assets in exchange for 40% of Alibaba's shares and 35% of its voting rights. Yahoo China's assets were privately discounted by US$600 million.
這個消息讓我開始重新審視3年之前的所做的那次採訪，我在自己的Blog裡寫到：“歷史的碎片，一頁頁飄落，好事者揀起自己中意的那頁。”
This news made me begin to reexamine the interview I had conducted three years ago. I wrote in my personal blog, "Fragments of history fall through the air page after page. Busybodies pick up whichever page catches their fancy."
馬雲成功了。馬雲成功了，就能證明他所講的那些故事全是真的嗎？但我和大家一樣愛聽成功者的故事，愛聽成功者總結成功經驗，以達到激勵自己、啟發自己之目的。不排除虛假故事激勵出真實故事的可能性。記者可能永遠無法觸摸到真實，但記者可以觸摸到他自己，所以，我的故事裡略去“馬雲在美國遭黑社會綁架”，略去“馬雲和孫正義在洗手間融資”，略去我認為不靠譜的故事。
Jack Ma has succeeded. Now that he has, does that really prove that all of the stories he told were true? But I, like everyone else, love listening to successful people's stories and summaries of their experiences. This helps me to motivate and inspire myself to achieve my goals. After all, false stories can inspire real ones. Perhaps a journalist may never be able to feel truth, but he can at least feel himself. That's why I omitted from my story "Jack Ma's kidnapping by an American syndicate", "Jack Ma's and Masayoshi Son's financing talks in a restroom", and other stories which I felt were dubious.
2005年10月09日，北京東方君悅酒店大堂，我請馬雲喝茶。馬雲對我說：“只有兩種媒體或者網站能夠生存：一種是有特色；一種是有規模。”“DoNews以前偏左，現在偏右。”“不應該太周正了。辦成新浪科技就沒意思了。”
On the 9th of October 2005, I treated Jack Ma to tea in the lobby of Grand Hyatt Beijing. He told me, "Only two types of media outlets or websites can survive: one is those which have special characteristics, and the other is those which are large-scale." "DoNews used to be left-of-center, now it's right-of-center." "Stop being so regular. It'll be boring if it becomes like Sina Tech."
那天，正陶醉在成功喜悅之中的馬雲講了他的新聞觀。“做過了。一定要記下來，要不等於沒做。後人還會犯同樣的錯誤。”“王峻濤能寫，我能說。”對寫字的人將觀點和事實混在一起表述，馬雲很有意見。“你要是瞎猜，你就要說明，這是我的觀點。”
That day, Jack Ma, who was reveling in the joy of success, spoke about his views on journalism. "When something has been done, it must be recorded, or else it's as good as not having been done before, and future generations will repeat similar mistakes." "Wang Juntao can write while I can speak." He was very critical of writers who mixed opinion and fact in their articles. "If you're making a wild guess, you have to declare that it's your personal opinion."
那天，我問了馬雲一個似乎是在討好他的問題。“為什麼你能有今天，而同樣聰明的中國電子商務的先驅王峻濤卻還在為創業努力？”馬雲說：“我在前面說，演講，做宣傳，作勢，而我背後，有一幫人在實幹，苦哈哈地賣力幹，而王峻濤身後沒有18‘羅漢’。我說過了，有人做；他說過，就說過了，說過了而已。”
That day, I asked Jack Ma a question which seemed like flattery. "Why is it that you can be where you are today, while the equally-clever Wang Juntao, who is the pioneer of China's e-commerce, is still toiling away?" He replied, "While I was talking, giving speeches, doing promotions, and attitudinizing, there was a group of people behind me doing the nitty-gritty and working themselves into the ground. Conversely, Wang Juntao doesn't have '18 arhats' behind him. When I say something, there are people working on it. When he says something, it's just empty talk."
2006年11月3日，DoNews 5G在討論 “馬雲付華誼兄弟3000萬廣告費，而他自己是華誼兄弟股東，這是否是關聯交易？”馬雲得知後，短信告訴正在參與討論的牟正蓬：“我馬雲不貪便宜，哈哈。我馬雲要是那樣的人，還能做什麼事？”馬雲的這個回答使我想起，馬雲分股份給18羅漢，馬雲放棄控股用VC的錢養大阿里巴巴，這些事實都指向馬雲是一個只顧事情成功，而不計較小利的人，但馬雲的確是華誼兄弟股東，的確付了華誼兄弟3000萬高額廣告製作費……更有消息指出，阿里巴巴日前收購的口碑網股東馬雲夫人張瑛……
On the 3rd of November 2006, DoNews 5G held a discussion on the topic "Jack Ma paid Huayi Brothers 30 million yuan in advertising fees when he is a shareholder of Huayi Brothers himself. Is this a related party transaction?" When Jack Ma learned about it, he sent a message to Mu Zhengpeng, who was taking part in the discussion, saying, "Haha, I'm not a cheapskate. How could I be successful if I was that kind of person?" This response made me think of his distribution of shares to the 18 arhats, as well as his forsaking of holding and using venture capital to grow Alibaba. These facts show that Jack Ma is someone who only cares about the success of his business and does not bother about cheap gains. But he is undeniably a shareholder of Huayi Brothers, and certainly paid Huayi Brothers 30 million in advertisement production fees... news has also pointed out that Jack Ma's wife, Zhang Ying, is a shareholder of the word-of-mouth network which Alibaba purchased a few days ago...
“歷史的碎片，一頁頁飄落，好事者揀起自己中意的那頁。”即便拾起的是同一片落頁，18“羅漢”和周鴻禕的解讀也一定不同，但6年之前“應該重視馬雲”的提醒沒錯，馬雲是個人物。（劉韌）"
Fragments of history fall through the air page after page. Busybodies pick up whichever page catches their fancy." Even if they pick up the same fallen page, the 18 arhats and Zhou Hongyi would certainly interpret the writing differently. But the advice to pay attention to Jack Ma which I received 6 years ago was right. Jack Ma is indeed somebody. (Liu Ren)
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