Are we overrating the Lakers young talent?
我们高估湖人这帮年轻人的天赋了吗？
I see a lot of Lakers fans saying that Ingram/Kuzma/Hart/Ball are not worth trading for any star this year. But every time I watch them play all I see is guys getting their stats but not playing winning basketball. How can all these young guys have this much hype and not produce a winning product on the floor with the best basketball player in the world?
我看到很多湖蜜说，英格拉姆、库兹马、哈特和鲍尔这个赛季已经不具备交易任何球星的价值。我每次看他们打球的时候，我只知道他们虽然都能刷数据，但打得并不是胜利篮球。这帮球员受到这么多热捧，并且还和世界最佳篮球运动员并肩战斗，那他们怎么就不能在场上为球队带来胜利呢？
————————
[–]Thunder nuhx 2045 points 13 hours ago
Young talent in general is really overrated in the NBA. NBA fans rate young players more about what they ideally can be than what they actually are right now. They are always assuming the young talent will improve consistently year by year under ideal circumstances.
雷霆球迷：大体而言，年轻人的天赋在NBA都是被高估的。NBA球迷对年轻人进行评价时更多地是依据他们今后理想的发展前景，而并非他们当下真正的实力。在某种理想化的设定下，大家总是觉得有天赋的年轻人会年复一年地持续进步。
[–][CLE] LeBron James Scatteredbrain 115 points 11 hours ago
yea like BI turning into Durant
骑士球迷：是的，就好比说英格拉姆成长为杜兰特。
[–][GSW] Draymond Green jthc 115 points 10 hours ago
He’s got the body of Durant, but not the shot. And Durant was a great shooter before he even got to the NBA.
勇士球迷：他有阿杜的身材，但是没有他的投篮。小帅进入NBA之前就已经是一名出色的投手了。
[–]Celtics gampo 57 points 8 hours ago
Also, Durant has a really fluid handle. BI isn't close to that.
凯尔特人气密：而且阿杜的控球真的很流畅，英格拉姆还差得远啊。
[–]Sullan 08 45 points 5 hours ago
Also just better at literally everything else lol. Ingram is massively overrated as a future star.
小帅其他各方面同样都比英格拉姆强。说啥英格拉姆是未来的球星，他真的被严重高估了。
[–]Spurs kawhi_tho 74 points 9 hours ago
Michael Lewis talked about this in Moneyball. Scouts love young guys because they can imagine them growing up to be anything. It's harder to do that with a 30 year old.
马刺球迷：迈克尔-刘易斯（美国当代报告文学作家、财经记者）在《点球成金》一书中说过这点。那些球探们喜欢年轻球员，是因为他们可以设想那些年轻人今后的任何可能性。要是去预想一个30岁球员的未来的话，那就难多了。
[–]BubbaTee 43 points 8 hours ago
Of course I'll trade (Player) for a draft pick. A draft pick could be anything! it could even be the next (Player)!
要是我也会用球员去换一个选秀权。毕竟一个选秀权包含任何可能性！甚至可能是下一个球星！
[–]Spurs kawhi_tho 48 points 6 hours ago
This is why the Lakers fans who thought Ingram had as much trade value as Kawhi were being stupid. Best-case scenario, Ingram turns out to be Kawhi. Kawhi already is Kawhi.
马刺球迷：所以说，那些觉得英格拉姆的交易价值等同于卡哇伊的湖蜜是愚蠢的。即便是最理想的情况下，英格拉姆成了卡哇伊那种球员，可是卡哇伊现在已经是这个水准了。
[–]Lakers eldencampbell 23 points 8 hours ago
Young talent is always overrated but young Lakers talent is particularly overrated.
Kuzma is the only young Laker who plays with urgency on offense. He puts more pressure than Ingram on the defense because he makes his move/decision immediately. He's a good finisher too.
Lonzo plays like you're not allowed to dribble more than 3 times. He isn't even testing that whole other dimension of passing that opens up through individual playmaking. It worries me.
I honestly don't know what to make of Ingram. If we was a better shooter I could believe in the whole narrative of him still being so young/promising.
湖人球迷：有天赋的年轻人通常是被高估的，不过湖人队里有天赋的年轻人尤甚。
库兹马是湖人队里唯一在进攻端打出紧迫感的年轻人。他在防守端施加的压力也比英格拉姆多，因为他能瞬间做出移动/决策。他还是个很优秀的终结者。
鲍尔就打得像是教练不允许他运球超过3次一样。这可真叫我着急啊。
我真不知道怎么评价英格拉姆。如果他的投篮再强一些的话，那我还能相信那些说他仍然年轻且有前途的坊间言论。
[–]New Jersey Netslatman 55 points 11 hours ago
Jaylen Brown is a perfect example of this. Players almost never develop playmaking/passing skills if they don't show signs of it at a young age.
杰伦-布朗就是个很好的例子。有些球员如果在年轻的时候没有显示出组织和传球的天赋，那他们几乎是没法开发出这两个技能的。
[–][UTA] Dell Curry DeathBySuplex 1069 points 12 hours ago
I blame 2k where players do naturally progress to an assumed peak.
Real world doesn’t work that way.
爵士球迷：这锅2K得背啊，毕竟游戏里的球员都能自然而然地走向既定的巅峰。
现实世界则没有这么顺畅了。
[–][CHI] Brian Scalabrine CoachDT 119 points 9 hours ago
I get called a hater for telling people this.
Like last year with Lonzo, he definitely CAN progress into an all-NBA type player, he can fix his J, improve at attacking the basket, improve his free throw shooting to become the type of guy to average like 19/11/6.
That doesn't mean you assume thats going to happen and you have to take someone for what they are currently even if "They're only (insert arbitrary age)!". This isn't me hating this is just me stating sometimes you get someone like Giannis that improves pretty consistently every year. Other times you get a Tyreke Evans or MCW. So assuming your young guys will just become stars is a bit silly.
公牛球迷：我因为这么跟人说被当做喷子。
就像上赛季的鲍尔，他绝对是能够成长为一名全明星级别的球员的，他可以改善自己的跳投，提升攻筐的能力和罚球，从而成为一名场均19+11+6的球员。
可是这并不意味着你的设想就能成为现实啊，你得参照现实来看待某个球员啊。这不是我喷，我只是陈述观点，有时候你会碰到字母哥这种每年都进步迅速的球员，其他时候你就会看到埃文斯和迈卡威。所以呢，预想你们队里的年轻人会成为球星，这是有点蠢的。
[–]pev2 260 points 11 hours ago
That's exactly what it is. A huge portion of the r/nba subscriber base does not regularly watch basketball. They watch the playoffs and occassional high-profile regular season games .
就是这么回事。这个专区的很大一部分球迷并不是经常看篮球的。他们看季后赛，偶尔看看高光集锦。
[–][LAL] Pat Riley OBPing 403 points 10 hours ago
I remember back in the days in NBA2K1 when Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry were rookies (yes I’m going waaaay back) the three of them would eventually go on to be the next Duncan, Shaq & Hakeem.
湖人球迷：我还记得当年的2K1，里面的夸梅-布朗、泰森-钱德勒和埃迪-库里都还是菜鸟（没错，这都是陈芝麻烂谷子的事儿了），游戏的设定是他们仨最终分别为成长为下一个邓肯、奥尼尔和奥拉朱旺。
————————
[–]Mavericks rvadarocket 277 points 13 hours ago
Yes, there’s talent there, but it’s not like they’ve got multiple young All-Stars just waiting to happen
独行侠球迷：是的，湖人那帮年轻人确实有天赋，但这并不意味着那几位小哥能自然成为全明星球员。
[–]Nuggets Wtfitzchris 76 points 10 hours ago*
Completely agree. Their young players aren't bad, but they get overrated because they play for the Lakers. Take Ingram for example. 16/4/1 on 47/33/65 shooting splits is nothing special for a player in his third year, especially when you consider he's below average defensively. I can't help but think that if he played on the Magic or Kings, most casual fans would have already forgotten about him.
完全赞同。湖人的年轻球员是不错的，但是他们之所以被高估，是因为他们效力于湖人。就拿英格拉姆举例吧，16+4+1的数据，47%、33%和65%的三项命中率对于一个进入联盟已三年的球员来说，没什么特别的，何况他的防守还在平均水准之下。我就觉得吧，要是他在魔术或者国王的话，大多数路人球迷或许已经忘了他。
[–][CHI] Brian Scalabrine CoachDT 54 points 9 hours ago
He'd be an interesting player, if he played on the magic people would call him a worse Turkuglu or say thats his ceiling.
However he plays in LA so suddenly dude is gonna be the next KD.
公牛球迷：那这个球员就有意思了，要是他为魔术效力的话，大家会叫他穷人版特科格鲁，或者说他的上限就是特科格鲁。
可是呢，他在洛杉矶啊，所以突然间，这哥们儿倒被吹成了下一个小帅。
[–][LAL] Kobe Bryant Leaootemivel 38 points 8 hours ago
The dude got called a bust endlessly in his rookie year and even last year people were saying that his ceiling was Travis Outlaw.
科比球迷：英格拉姆处子赛季的时候，很多人就没完没了地说他是水货，甚至是上赛季，大家还说他的上限也就是特拉维斯-奥特洛。
[–]Bucks Lanky_Kaleidoscope 128 points 10 hours ago
They have four young players that might not be far from becoming quality starters. Not many teams in the league have that. The Lakers genuinely do have good talent and it is definitely not out of the question one of their young players becomes an all star talent in their prime.
That said, people probably overrate the significance of that. Young talent can be squandered quickly. Once those guys have to be paid, team will have tough decisions to make. And those guys aren't really doing that much more to help team win in short run than fairly average veterans.
Lakers are in good shape as far as young talent goes, but that doesn't mean their team is very good at the moment and it also doesn't mean that they are just gonna have some star studded team when those guys develop. Some could disappoint, some could surprise (more will disappoint probably cause fans are usually over-optimistic about young players), but they all will be expensive to retain.
雄鹿球迷：湖人拥有的这四个年轻人或许很快就能成为那种强力首发球员。联盟里有这种年轻财富的球队可不多。湖人确实有很强的天赋，而且他们这帮年轻人里面或许有个人会在巅峰期进入全明星呢，这还真不好说啊。
话虽这么说，大家或许还是高估了其中的重要性。年轻人的天赋是可以很快就挥霍掉的，一旦他们到了签约的时候，那球队就面临着艰难的抉择了。而且相比起那些一般的老将，这些年轻人在短期内为球队取胜所做的贡献实际并没有多出多少啊。
随着年轻人的成长，湖人正处于一种积极的态势下，不过这并不意味着球队眼下是优秀的，而且这也不能保证当这帮年轻人成长起来之时，湖人就会成为一支星光熠熠的球队。有些球员会让人失望，有些则带给人惊喜，但他们都是需要球队付出昂贵代价来留下的。
[–]Raptors bloopcity 114 points 12 hours ago
I think we overrate young players in general, unless they are a freak athlete/talent, most young players don't contribute consistently until about 23. Ingram is 21, give them time (unfortunately LeBron doesn't have much of that).
猛龙球迷：我觉得我们通常都会高估年轻人，除非他们是那种变态的天赋或者身体素质，大部分在23岁之前是没法持续稳定输出的。英格拉姆才21嘛，给点时间（可惜的是，勒布朗没有那么多时间等待）。
[–]Lakers ashishvp 95 points 9 hours ago
That’s honestly the reason why signing Lebron was so weird.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s fucking Lebron and I’m stoked. But hes 34! He really doesn’t fit with our rebuilding timeline.
湖人球迷：所以我才觉得签勒布朗很奇怪。
别曲解我啊，那可是特么的勒布朗啊，我很高兴的。但是他都34了！他真的不符合我们重建的时间线。
[–]Raptors bloopcity 64 points 9 hours ago
I thought you guys would ship out ingram and/or ball to get an immediate talent and try and keep Randle but this is where we are.
猛龙球迷：我之前还以为你们会送出英格拉姆和/或者球哥，从而得到一名具备即战力的天赋型球员，然后再试着留下兰德尔呢，可是事实却是现在这个样子。
————————
[–][UTA] Joe Ingles NitroXYZ 620 points 13 hours ago
Absolutely. If they where on the Magic or Grizzlies they wouldn't get nearly as much attention.
英格尔斯球迷：绝对的。要是他们在魔术或者灰熊的话，他们得到的关注度要比现在少的多啊。
[–]thehumangenius23 146 points 11 hours ago
This shit bothers me. The Lakers young guys still look talented, you can still see the individual talent. But the issue with the Lakers is that they’re not playing well as a team. None of these guys are playing defined roles and the best looking one (Ingram) was suspended for 4 games and missed opportunity to gel with the new line ups.
Lebron is a great player but adding him to the roster has massively changed things, they even started out a little better last year than this year. My issue with the team is Luke still somehow doesn’t know what he has in each player and line up after weeks and weeks of training camps, summer league and games.
Also, it’s noteworthy that a lot of these runs to close deficits come when Lebron is on the bench. He’s not fitting in with the young guys, but he’s damn Lebron so of course you gotta base your play around him.
这种屁话真的烦。湖人的年轻人还是很有天赋的，你还是能看得到他们个人的天赋。但是湖人的问题是这帮年轻人作为一个团队的表现不甚理想。他们全都没有明确的角色定位，而且看着最强的那个（英格拉姆）还被停赛四场，错过了与球队的新首发磨合的机会。
虽说勒布朗是个伟大的球员，但是引进他已经对球队造成了巨变，湖人上赛季的开局甚至还要比这个赛季好点。我觉得球队的问题在于，经历过几周的训练营、夏季联赛和比赛过后，沃顿仍然不知道自己对每个球员和这套阵容的安排是什么。
此外，值得注意的是，很多缩小比赛分差的小高潮都是勒布朗坐在替补席上的时候打出来的，他和这帮年轻人不搭，但谁叫他是特么的勒布朗呢，你必须得围绕他打啊。
————————
编译：云长刮个痧
閱讀更多 直播吧 的文章
