名記Zach Lowe：“詹姆斯退役時會是歷史第一人（如果現在他還不是的話）。在歷史第一人的地位，詹姆斯現在已經和喬丹並駕齊驅了。只要他再打出4個禽獸般的賽季，數據上講，這個話題將不再有爭議。”
Zach Lowe: "Lebron will be the greatest player by the time he retires if he hasn't already, at this moment he is neck and neck with Jordan as the greatest player ever. Once he posts 4 more monster years, statistically there will be no conversation" @32min
Was really shocked to see Zach Lowe make this statement. The definitiveness of his statement was genuinely mind blowing. Stats shouldn't be able to elevate lebron over Jordan moving forward. I find that their is a selective process for when stats get used to boost players legacy. Westbrook should be entering top 20 status if stats mean this much.
我真的被Zach Lowe的言論所震驚了。他話語中的堅定讓人聽得凌亂。在未來，數據根本無法讓詹姆斯超越喬丹啊。我發現人們在評價球員歷史地位時總是有選擇地使用數據。要是數據真有這麼重要的話威少已經是歷史前20了。
[–]RaptorsKawhiGotUsNow 142 指標 5小時前
Westbrook should be entering top 20 status if stats mean this much.
This is much dumber than what Lowe said.
“要是數據真有這麼重要的話威少已經是歷史前20了。”
你這話說的比Zach Lowe還蠢。
[–][TOR] Bruno CabocloXeibi 160 指標 5小時前
These younglings talking bout LeBron and Jordan...
smh back in my day Bob Cousy was the true GOAT, playing against true defenses and not this malarkey of the 80s, 90s, and 00s.
（模仿厚古薄今言論）現在這些小屁孩成天討論詹姆斯和喬丹……
唉，我那會兒，鮑勃-庫西才是真正的第一人。他面對的可是實打實的嚴防死守，而不是80、90、00年代這些小兒科。
[–]Lakersshamrock8421 448 指標 5小時前
The title of GOAT will ultimately be bestowed upon he whose version of “Space Jam” is superior.
湖人球迷：歷史最佳這個頭銜將取決於詹喬二人誰的《空中大灌籃》更好。
[–]NBANot_Me25 114 指標 3小時前
No way any new Space Jam touches the old one. Not a chance
新版《大灌籃》絕對不可能超過老版。沒有一點可能。
[–][UTA] Donovan MitchellHydromorfiend 80 指標 2小時前
Nostalgia is a powerful thing
懷舊的力量很強大的。
[–]Twoweekswithpay 811 指標 5小時前*
I was there for Jordan, and yes, we were spoiled by the narrative that one guy is all it takes to win a championship, when in reality, it was the mix of the best player, an unusually unselfish great #2 in Pippen, good mix of role players, and a head coach/coaching staff that just knew how to maximize the best out of all their players.
當年喬丹還在打球的時候我就看了。沒錯，我們都被那種“一個人就能拿總冠軍”的輿論說法給寵壞了。現實中，奪冠需要最好的球員、一個像皮蓬一樣非常無私的二當家、各種優秀角色球員和知道如何最大化利用球員的教練/制服組。
In this fashion, Steph Curry is having the career MJ had. But the league is covered in a more nuanced way now and more people watch players on a night-in, night-out basis to recognize the difference between great stats and great players.
從這種角度來考慮，那庫里正在經歷喬丹經歷過的生涯。但聯盟現在被覆蓋推廣的方式更細，越來越多的人會看球員的每場比賽，他們能明白豪華的數據和優秀的球員之間的區別。
For me, I did think 6-0 trumped everything but with Lebron, i’ve Come to realize that it does matter who your teammates and coaches are. Lebron has never had a phil Jackson. Had Lebron joined the warriors instead Of Cleveland way back when after Miami, we’d be talking about him as the greatest ever, due to his likely 7th title this year. But, he chose the hard way and won one for Cleveland.
於我而言，我之前確實覺得總決賽六勝零負能壓倒一切，但看到詹姆斯，我開始理解隊友和教練確實很重要。詹姆斯從來沒有自己的菲爾-傑克遜。要是詹姆斯離開熱火後沒有回騎士而是加入勇士，我們現在就會認為他是歷史最偉大球員，因為那樣以來，到了今年，他應該都已經拿了七個冠軍了。但他選擇了回家，為克利夫蘭贏得了一座獎盃。
Michael had a lot of things working for him, including being drafted into a major market from the start. The one area that is hard to quantify though that seemingly gives MJ the edge is that in the way Lebron seemingly had a psychological grip on the raptors, michael had that over the entire league during his 6 titles. That’s something that really has only been seen a couple times since with Tiger Woods or Serena Williams, and those are individual sports.
喬丹的助力很多，包括他從一開始就是被大球市選中的。不過喬丹有一個優勢似乎是難以衡量的：詹姆斯好像從心理上就把猛龍拿住了，而喬丹在6冠期間幾乎是全聯盟的心理陰影。這是體育史上很僅有的現象，類似的還有老虎伍茲和小威，而那都是個人運動了。
The Bull’s dominance, only when MJ was on the team, led to a false equivalency, however, between being “the best player” and “winning a championship.” But, that’s okay. I think Lebron wins a championship with the lakers and he’ll be the first one to win 3 finals mvp’s for 3 franchises. He’ll be in the statistical top 5 all time in scoring and assists. And he’ll have the distinction of the greatest of his generation.
不過，喬丹公牛的統治力造成了一種錯誤的等式，讓人誤以為“最好的球員”就得“贏總冠軍”。但我覺得這也沒啥毛病啦，我覺得詹姆斯最終會在湖人奪冠，成為第一個在三支球隊都拿到FMVP的球員。而他的總得分和助攻數據會排到歷史前五。而且他還有這個時代第一人的頭銜。
We’ll appreciate him much more after he’s gone. We’ll remember him as the guy who survived and thrived in the social media age without any major blips. And, he’ll leave us all in a better place from a fan’s perspective in knowing that in team sports, the best players give you the potential to win a championship, but to actually win it, it takes more than just “The Man.”
在詹姆斯退役之後，我們將更加能夠充分地欣賞他。到時候，我們記憶中的詹姆斯就是一個在參殘酷挑剔的社交媒體時代成功存活下來並如魚得水的人，沒有留下大的汙點。並且，詹姆斯將會使我們球迷能夠對籃球有更好的理解：在團隊運動中，最好的球員有潛力幫一支球隊贏得冠軍，但贏得冠軍真正所需要的東西要遠比“那個人”多得多。
[–]crowntheking 210 指標 5小時前
This is a really great comment..
The Steph curry comparison is interesting and even if he wins this year no one is going to be calling him the greatest of all time. His situation is a lot more similar to Jordan's then LeBron's ever has been
真的是好評論啊。
庫裡和喬丹的對比很有趣，即使庫裡今年也奪冠，還是沒人會稱他為歷史第一。
其實他的境遇相對詹姆斯來說和喬丹更相近。
[–]WizardsMarmaladeFugitive 115 指標 4小時前
KD robbed us of peak Curry. He probably wouldn't end up the greatest ever...but I sure as fuck wanted to see him try for it.
杜蘭特偷走了球迷看到“巔峰庫裡”的機會。庫裡大概率永遠也成不了歷史第一了……但我之前是真的想看他衝這個目標努努力啊。
[–]Celticskilltasticfever 64 指標 4小時前
Not really, steph has MUCH more in terms of help/team than jordan ever did.
凱爾特人球迷：不太算吧。庫裡得到的幫助/他的隊友比喬丹強得多。
[–]peppermintpattymills 75 指標 4小時前
Displaying a Finals record as 6-0 is super misleading because it implies that 6-0 is better than 6-2. That's what bugs me about saying Jordan never lost a Finals. He also didn't make a Finals for the first like seven years of his career or whatever.
“總決賽六勝零負”這種話有點誤導性，因為這就是在暗示“6-0比6-2”要好。這就是我聽人說喬丹從沒輸過總決賽時感到彆扭的原因。因為他生涯前七年都沒進過總決賽呢。
[–]76ersmatgopack 56 指標 3小時前
Agreed.
Playoff overall record: MJ: 119-60 (66.5%)
Lebron: 154-79 (66.1%)
Almost identical, with a larger volume for Lebron.
同意。
季後賽數據：喬丹119勝60負，勝率66.5%
詹姆斯154勝79負，勝率（66.1%）。
基本沒區別，詹姆斯的場次還更多。
[–][OKC] Raymond FeltonDTttfu 368 指標 6小時前
Statistically definitely but not in accolades
雷霆球迷：數據肯定是，但榮譽不可能。
[–][GSW] Stephen Curryec20 180 指標 5小時前
I understood Zach to mean that the greater longevity of strong statistical seasons, combined with the accolades Lebron does have, would make him the GOAT.
So not necessarily that peak Lebron was better than peak Jordan, but that Lebron's peaks combined with his longevity should make him the GOAT.
勇士球迷：我明白Zach的意思，他是說詹姆斯數據漂亮的賽季會持續得更久，再加上詹姆斯獲得的榮譽，這兩個因素加起來將使得他超越喬丹。
所以他的意思也不一定是說巔峰詹姆斯比巔峰喬丹強，而是詹姆斯的巔峰能力+他持久的常青生涯會使他超越喬丹。
[–][DAL] Steve Nashaceofspadez138 61 指標 4小時前
But then one can raise the argument that modern medicine/sports science better equips players nowadays to have greater longevity. Jordan came back after three years of retirement and averaged nearly averaged 23/6/5 at age 38. And at age 39, he averaged nearly 20/6/4.
獨行俠球迷：但我同樣也可以爭辯說現代醫療/體育科學更發達，能幫助球員們取得更久更常青的職業生涯啊。喬丹退休三年後回來還能在38歲時場均23+6+5。他39歲時還能場均接近20+6+4。
I'm not saying that's enough to trump LeBron's longevity or anything (especially given that he started earlier than Jordan, and will never have taken time off in between), because it's heavily hypothetical, but just saying that people will bring that up.
我不是說喬丹那兩年的表現就足以讓他超過詹姆斯的常青水平（尤其考慮到詹姆斯進入聯盟比喬丹早，而且這期間沒有給自己放年假），因為這裡的假設成分很大。我只是說肯定會有人提出我爭辯的這個觀點啊。
[–]RaptorsTheToogood 103 指標 4小時前
but LeBron has been proven to be an anomaly even today
猛龍球迷：然而詹姆斯已經證明了，即使在如今的時代，他也是個反常。
[–]Bullscobrakaistrikefree 92 指標 4小時前
the flip side is that due to modern medicine or whatever the league now is more talented than it ever has been. lebron has played his entire prime in the most talent-laden era in nba history. i still have him behind mj but it wouldnt surprise me if bron was widely considered the goat in 10-15 years
（回覆那位獨行俠球迷）
公牛球迷：你的論點的另一面是，由於現代醫療這類科學的發展，現在NBA天賦水平比以前高多了。詹姆斯的整個巔峰都是在NBA歷史上天賦最豐富的時代中度過的。不過我還是把他排在喬丹之後，但如果10-15年後他被廣泛認為是歷史第一，我也不會驚訝。
[–]little_shit_timmy 57 指標 4小時前
Thank you. All Stars take up 1% of the league, and we can subjectively debate which era has the better all-stars. What about the 99%? LeBron on average played against more skilled and athletic players than Jordan did - and that's not subjective, that's a fact.
謝謝。全明星佔全聯盟的1%，我們當然可以主觀地評價哪個時代的全明星是最強的。那剩下的99%呢？平均來看，詹姆斯的對手比喬丹的對手技術更好、運動能力更強——這可不是主觀臆斷，是事實。
[–]delont3west 128 指標 6小時前*
No shit he'll have the edge in stats as he'll have played much longer, no one is going to argue Jordan had better longevity than LeBron (or Kareem).
But while he has less volume stats, Jordan got far more individual accolades in his fewer seasons.
詹姆斯最後數據上會更有優勢不是廢話嘛。因為他到退役之時，出場時間和年份會比喬丹長得多，沒人會爭辯說喬丹的生涯比詹姆斯（或賈巴爾）更常青。
Edit: Jordan had more MVPs, more scoring titles, more steals titles, more all-defense first teams, DPOY, the highest career PER in regular season history, the highest career PER in playoff history, the highest career WS/48 in regular season history, the highest career WS/48 in playoff history
編輯：喬丹有更多的MVP、得分王、搶斷王和一防次數，還有最佳防守球員、常規賽歷史上最高的生涯PER、季後賽歷史上最高的生涯PER、常規賽歷史上最高的生涯每48分鐘勝利貢獻值、季後賽歷史上最高的生涯每48分鐘勝利貢獻值。
[–]Raptorspleasefeedthedino 56 指標 5小時前
It’s not even just accolades. It’s how they played the game. LeBron is a legend but he just hasn’t been as consistent in his greatness as Jordan was.
猛龍球迷：不只是榮譽，還有打法。詹姆斯是一個傳奇，但沒有喬丹那樣自始至終的偉大。
[–]Lakersso-cal_kid 112 指標 5小時前
Nor dominant. Jordan thoroughly dominated his era. Granted Lebron ran into this Warriors dynasty, but even before that he lost to the Mavs and Spurs. Jordan laid waste to everyone he faced at his peak.
湖人球迷：也沒有喬丹那樣的統治力。喬丹完完全全統治了他那個時代。我承認，詹姆斯確實撞上了勇士王朝，但即便在這之前，他也輸給過獨行俠和馬刺。而巔峰喬丹則讓所有對手都飲恨了。
[–]CavaliersJjab430 41 指標 5小時前
How many rings do you think Jordan would have if Hakeem, Barkley, Miller, and Mutombo teamed up in the middle of his prime?
騎士球米：如果大夢、巴克利、米勒、穆託姆博組成一隊，你覺得喬丹還能在他巔峰期贏得幾個冠軍？
[–]WestVerySadAllTheTime 68 指標 5小時前
On the other hand how many rings do you think he’d have if he teamed up with Stockton and Robinson
換個角度來看，如果喬丹和斯托克頓、大衛-羅賓遜組隊的話，他會拿下幾個冠軍呢？
[–][CHI] Rajon Rondobluemagic124 82 指標 5小時前
Scottie Pippen is a HOF level talent in his own right
公牛球迷：皮蓬已經是名人堂級別的天賦了。
[–]peppermintpattymills 40 指標 4小時前
The '94 Bulls won 55 games, Pippen averaged 22.0/8.7/5.6 with 2.9spg and they went seven games in the Eastern conference semis.
The '16 Cavs without LeBron probably wouldn't win 40 games or make the playoffs. Yeah Kyrie and Love are good. No they aren't that good.
94公牛贏了55場比賽，皮蓬場均22+8.7+5.6+2.9搶斷。然後他們在東部半決賽中把對手拖入了搶七。
2016的那支騎士如果沒有詹姆斯的話，多半贏不到40場比賽，也大概率進不了進季後賽。
歐文和樂福確實很棒，但沒有那麼棒。
[–]CelticsBillygoatsinbed 86 指標 6小時前
Yeah statistically LeBron is the greatest of all time but Jordan has him beat in accolades
凱爾特人球迷：嗯，數據上詹姆斯確實是歷史第一，但喬丹在榮譽上勝出。
[–]Bucksniceboy03 63 指標 5小時前
Even statistically lebron isn’t. It would be wilt
即使數據上看詹姆斯也不是歷史第一，應該是張伯倫。
[–]pianomormon 129 指標 5小時前
If we're talking about statistical consistency and longevity, its not Wilt that makes a case against LeBron, it'd be Kareem.
如果咱討論的是數據方面的穩定性和持久性，那詹姆斯的對手就不是張伯倫了，應該是賈巴爾。
[–][DEN] Nikola JokicRedSoxEatPoop 50 指標 6小時前
Well I guess volume statistic wise...Jordan retired twice which helps out a lot lol
I love Bron but there isn't going to be a real debate until he wins another ring and although people on here don't want to hear that, it's 100% true.
E: I guess he technically retired 3 times but the point stands
額，那大概從數據的總量上來看是這樣……喬丹退役了兩次啊，這可幫了詹姆斯大忙了哈哈哈！
我喜歡詹姆斯，但在他再贏一個冠軍之前還是沒什麼可爭論的，即使話題區的人們不喜歡聽，但事實就是這樣。
編輯：嚴格地說，喬丹是退役了三次，但對我的觀點沒有影響。
[–][LAL] Kobe BryantTOP_5_DOA 56 指標 5小時前
MJ averaged 30/6/5 on 50% shooting and 2.3 steals in his regular season career 33/6/6 on 49% shooting and 2.1 steals in his playoff career 34/6/6 on 48% and nearly 2 steals in his Finals career
湖人球迷：喬丹常規賽場均30+6+5，命中率50%，場均2.3搶斷；季後賽場均33+6+6，命中率49%，場均2.1搶斷；總決賽場均34+6+6，命中率48%，場均接近2搶斷。
Also DPOY, 10 time scoring champ, 3 time steals leader. All this while only playing 18 games in his 2nd season due to injury and playing only 17 games in 95 after coming back from retirement. MJ is the GOAT
他還是最佳防守球員，10次得分王，3次搶斷王。而且他第二個賽季因傷只出戰了18場，95年復出後只打了17場。喬丹就是歷史第一。
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