评论：
I would say Romans will lose . Just cuz they got nice formations does not mean they got better weapons. We all never seen Romans fighting Han China. So it must be called a match.
But for saying, I vote for China.
汉朝完胜。
当然罗马军团纪律性很强，但不敌汉军的火箭和火牛车。罗马人先是生平第一次看见焰火，然后便四散而逃。双方骑兵同时向对方冲锋（汉朝士兵的盔甲很普通，但是也有着覆盖全身的铁质盔甲的精锐，相反罗马只有军团制式盔甲，有些甚至只穿皮甲）。中世纪的中国拥有一支强大的军队。
罗马会输，阵型漂亮不代表装备精良。当然我们永远不会看到双方真正的战争，这只能算是某一方面的比赛。
要不怎么说我会投票给中国呢。
#8.
Actually, the better battle that illustrates Roman Cavalry weakness is Carrae.
40,000 Roma Legions vs 10,000 Parthia Horse Archers and 1,000 Cataphract (heavy cavalry). Romans were routed. Point could be said that the Roman commander, Crassus was inept.
实际上卡莱之战更能证明骑兵是罗马的弱势。4万罗马军团士兵，对阵帕提亚1万骑射和1万重装骑兵，罗马溃败。克拉苏作为指挥官实在不给力。
克拉苏(Marcus Licinius Crassus Dives，公元前115年～前53年)，古罗马军事家、政治家。他曾帮助苏拉在内战中夺权建立独裁统治。他通过奴隶贸易，经营矿产，投机地产买卖，及非法夺取其他人的财产等手段积攒万贯家财。前72年至前71年期间，斯巴达克率奴隶爆发起义，克拉苏带领罗马军队残酷镇压。苏拉隐退后，他和庞培、凯撒合作，组成三头政治同盟。 此后他因嫉妒恺撒在高卢所取得的战功，于公元前53年发动了对安息帝国的战争，在卡莱战役中全军覆没，本人也被安息帝国俘虏。 传说安息人是用熔化的黄金灌进他的喉咙里，将他杀死的。
#9.
Both the Romans and Chinese had very good artillery (catapults and ballistas). Romans had superior infantry, especiall heavy infantry, though the Chinese had better missile troops (are you sure that Roman bows outranged Chinese crossbows? Also, Chinese crossbows had a faster rate of fire than European ones of the Middle Ages).
I still think the decisive factor here is cavalry, for cavlary have proved for centuries to be the bane of heavy infantry. Also, the Chinese could field armies of a million troops, while the Romans at their height had 250,000 legionaires and a equal number of auxiliaries.
双方远程机械部队都很强（都装备了弩炮和投石器）。罗马步兵，特别是重装步兵更强，同时中国弩兵更胜一筹（有人确定罗马弓箭射程超过中国的弩吗？虽然我知道和欧洲相比中国的弩拥有更快的射速）
我也觉得骑兵是决定性因素，千百年来已经证明了骑兵是重装步兵的噩梦。而且中国可以把百万军队投入战场，罗马军团在巅峰时期也不过只有25万人，而且很大一部分是辅助部队。
Don*t they use a line of pikemen infront of musketeers in the 15th 16th (or whatever) centuries to protect the musketeers from cavalry charges? That is, until the bayonet was invented.
在15、16世纪（谁知道呢），不是用一排长矛兵保护身后的滑膛枪手的吗？直到刺刀出现。
#56.Re:#55.
That was used in Europe. The Dutch also developed a tactic using a combination of a sort of mobile phalanx like formation for their pikeman with companies of musketeers. The musketeers would fire at the enemy from a range, while the formations of pikeman would close in on the enemy once the enemy gets within close range.
那是曾经的欧洲，德国佬还发明了一种战术，让长矛兵和滑膛枪手组成一种运动阵型，距离适中时滑膛枪手射击，一旦敌人接近，长矛兵就上去一阵乱捅。
#57.Re:#12.
Gunpowder was invented during the eastern Han dynasty. But, it was only used as fireworks. The first time it was used in battles was during the Song dynasty.
火药在东汉就发明了，不过只是用于烟火，首次用于军事是宋朝时发生的。
#58.
I think Rome may have superior training and discipline for its troops. It also has contacted many other parts of the world. China, on the other hand, has fewer contact with other nations.
我认为罗马军队的训练和士气更佳，而且和世界其他地区的接触也更广泛。反观中国，几乎不怎么和其他国家接触。
#59.
the rome and the hans all shall one enemy: the Huns. from what i*ve learned, the huns almost destoried the rome while the hans have managed to keep them out of its boarder.
罗马和汉朝有一个共同的敌人：匈族人。反正我是这么学的：被汉朝赶跑的匈族人毁灭了罗马。（正如前文所说，我个人认为不应该把汉朝与罗马的实力对比简单地归结的到一个剪刀石头布的模型中。）
BTW way, The Roman Gladius (gladius mean short word in latin) is a copy of the Iberian sword used by the Spanish and by Carthage.
顺便说一下，罗马短剑是仿西班牙人和迦太基人使用的伊比利亚剑而成的。
#65.
I don*t like Gladius. Too short.
不喜欢罗马短剑，太短。
#66.Re:#65.
That why it was so deadly....
In the Gaulic wars, the Gaul had the big 3 ft sword, the Romans rushed them and with their sheild the gauls long sword became a liability. The Gauls did not have enough room to weild them.
短才致命。
在高卢战争中，高卢人用的是3英尺长的大剑，当罗马人举着盾牌冲向他们的时候，根本没有挥舞空间的大剑毫无优势可言。
#67.Re:#65.
yea, you like the sword of William Wallace, don*t you?
恩，你肯定喜欢《勇敢的心》里面那样的长剑，对吧？
#68.
I know short swords are deadly when 2 men are closed up.
But I still perfer a longsword, or better (2 handed).. .
我知道2个人面对面的时候短剑更致命。
但我还是喜欢长剑，双手持的更好...
#69.Re:#66.
That, I know.
我也知道。
#70.
I think a shorter sword can also be swung faster
越短的剑挥舞起来越快。
#71.Re:#70.
Of course! Its light and easy to wield. Good with a shield.
当然了，因为轻便么，配合盾使用效果很好。
#124.
Han Chinese - Missile weapons. Good cavalries, armours for every soldier, overwhelming numbers, smart and strategic generals.
Romans - Great formations and disciplane soldiers. Dunno more.
汉朝-强弩，优秀的骑兵，每个士兵装备有盔甲，数量上的优势，机智且有战略眼光的将领。
罗马-优秀的阵型，纪律性强的士兵。
#125.Re:#124.
Rome had discipline professional soldiers, career generals, and the best heavy infantry in the world at that time.
In order to beat them, the Parthians use their composite bows and refrain from closing in on them. Once the legionaries got you within melee, they will most likely have won.
罗马有专业士兵，职业将军，以及当时世界上最好的重步兵。
为了打败他们，帕提亚人不得不使用复合弓来避免和他们近距离接触。一旦重步兵和你近距离肉搏，他们就已经取得了胜利。
#126.Re:#125.
Yeah, they are soo good in fighting barbarians without good armour and with lower pop...
是啊，他们在对付赤膊上阵的没有文化的野蛮人的时候表现得非常优秀。
#127.
this thread is still alive?! LOL
are you guys just keep stating the same things over and over again?
这贴还没沉？！LOL
你们有完没完？
正如这位老兄所言，下面的帖子也差不多都是相同的内容了，汉朝对罗马基本上变成了弩兵对盾牌阵，中间还夹杂着大量的关于东西罗马历史的讨论。有兴趣的继续看原帖吧。
有同学质疑文章是抄来的，原帖确实早有人介绍过，我也是看了那篇帖子才想到去翻译的，大家可以去对比一下（google搜索“汉朝，罗马”），如果说立意不是原创，那么本文就算是一种补充与完善吧。
A good army does not depend on luck, so if it*s army is weakened by luck it will not be destroyed. A good army*s general always know where the enemy might ambush him and sends scouts forward. I think it depends mostly on the general, and there has been cases in history when an army that was outnumbered by the enemy 10 to 1 won the battle.
一支优秀的军队不是靠天吃饭的，即使运气不在他这边，也不会覆灭。好的将领往往能预测出敌人可能伏击的位置并且派出斥候侦查大军的行军路线。我认为（战争的胜负）基本上取决于将领的能力，也有很多的例子证明以一敌十不是神话。
Some times they do.
If the Romans had 3000 legions and Han has only 100 guards in a small city.
What if the city is near a cliff, and 2999 Romans sliped and died on accident? Then its 100 on 1 . LOL
不一定。比如说，3000罗马士兵包围了只有100汉朝士兵守卫的小城。如果城池靠近悬崖，2999个罗马倒霉蛋失足落入悬崖摔死了呢？然后罗马人可就是以一敌百了。LOL
#46.
you must be insane, liberator, 2999 died of slipping of a cliff?! if the general is smart, then he might not attack the city directly but rather surround the city and wait the enemies out. the enemy would eventually run out of food and water. see, no casualties.
楼上的不正常了，2999人坠崖摔死？罗马将军如果够机灵，应该围而不攻，等汉朝军队渴死饿死，那就是0伤亡了。
#47.
Rome do have very formidable discipline and tactics. But they do not have monopoly of it.
In han China, crossbowmen are arrange in 3 ranks to alternate fire (front rank - fires; rear rank reloads; middle rank -advance). Doing so ensures a consistant barrage. These crossbowmen are protected by a shield wall of heavy infantry from melee attacks.
罗马的军纪和战术都是令人畏惧的，但也不只是罗马。
汉代中国，弩兵分为三个轮次交替射击（第一轮次的射击，最后一轮的装箭，中间一轮的准备）。确保能形成一道连续不断的火力网。弩兵被手持盾牌的重步兵保护着避免遭遇肉搏战。
They make me sick too.
So we have heard about a lot of the Han equipment, what of the Romans? How will the Han formation fare against pilums thrown at them, possibly killing many? (since they wear scale armor, and assuming the Romans could get close enough to use their pilums) How about siegecraft, How will Chinese cities fare against Roman sieges and Roman cities fare against a Chinese army? I think the Chinese would have an advantage in siegecraft, I*m not sure if mongonels were invented at this time, but to my knowledge Chinese architects built siege engines very suitable and powerful for siegecraft.
武士刀我也不喜欢。
我们已经讨论了一大堆汉朝的装备了，说说罗马的怎么样？当汉朝的军阵面对罗马特制标枪的攻击时会发生什么？（假设他们身穿鳞甲且已经进入标枪的射程）。双方各自的城墙能否承受住对方攻城器的进攻？我知道汉朝在攻城器械方面有优势，我不知道当时有没有投石车，不过汉朝设计的攻城器械确实好用。
#85.
I thought the katana and wakibasih were Japanese. Why are we talking about them? The katana is supposed to have a molecular blade, and both Japanese swords are made with highly advance metallugury skills. The Japanese learned their metallgury skills from the Chinese, who also made very good swords, just in different styles and designs. Europe didnt* have metallgury technology until long after the Chinese started using it.
我想武士刀既然是从日本来的，我们为什么要讨论他们？武士刀就像光剑一样锋利，所有的日本刀都采用先进的萃取技术冶炼而成。当然，这个技术是从中国学习来的。中国人造的剑同样出色，只不过2者的造型设计不同罢了。直到中国掌握萃取技术很久之后欧洲才学会它。
#86.Re:#84.
I think Chinese siege weapons are better. Roman balistas cannot destroy Chinese walls (If you see how think Chinese walls are).
Pilums, I heard they are very good. But how can they be strong when people use arms to throw spears?
中国的攻城器械更好，罗马的弹射装置奈何不了中国的城墙（只要你见过中国的城墙有多厚就明白了）。
特制标枪，听说很好用，但是都是靠胳膊投掷出去的，又能强多少呢？
Now on to weapons of the Roman legions.
My personal favourite melee weapon, the Roman Gladius. It is a short sword designed to be used as a stabbing weapon during close combat. Roman legionnaires can safely launch their attack behind their large rectangular shields. Stabbing weapons have been proven to be more effective in combat that slashing or crushing ones. However, the downside is its length.
Despite the impression of many, Roman ballista does not actually fire bolts but rather stones. Crafted out of wood, ropes and animal sinew, it fires a stone the size of a human fist to a distance of 600 feet. These can be found at nearly all ancient roman forts and strongholds, however, there are very few instances where they were carried to field battles on record.
下面是罗马军团的武器。
我个人最爱的近战武器：罗马短剑。短是为了方便在近战中刺伤对方。罗马人可以躲在巨型方盾后安全的攻击，对于他们来说刺杀型武器在肉搏在中应该比砍杀型武器和碾压型武器更有效，当然了，太短了也不好。
印象当中，罗马的弩炮更多的是投掷石块而不是燃烧的弩箭，用木材、绳子和动物肌腱制作而成的罗马弩炮如果投掷一个拳头大小的石块，射程可达600英尺。这很多古罗马防御要塞都有发现。然而，没有什么例子能证明在野外阵地作战的时候罗马人也会使用弩炮。
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