編者按：喬治·帕潘德里歐 是希臘政治家，曾於2009至2011年間擔任希臘總理。他見證了中希合作的不斷深化。帕潘德里歐先生在接受“聚焦中國”專訪時，分享了關於希中經濟合作和文化交流對發展兩國關係的重要意義的觀點和看法。
Editor's Note: George Papandreou is a Greek Politician who served as Prime Minister of Greece from 2009 to 2011. He witnesses the deepening cooperation between Greece and China. In this exclusive interview with China Focus, George Papandreou shares with us his thoughts on the importance of economic cooperation and cultural exchange for the development of Greece-China relations.
China Focus: 今年是中華人民共和國成立70週年。您認為這70年來，中國最大的變化是什麼？中國的發展為世界帶來了哪些益處?
This year marks the 70th anniversary of the founding of the PRC. In your opinion, what has been the biggest change in China over the past 70 years? And, how has the world benefited from the development of China?
帕潘德里歐：中國最大的變化之一，莫過於中國經濟的變化。通過實施中國特色社會主義和對世界經濟開放，中國受益匪淺。首先，儘管貧困依然是個問題，但中國取得了人類歷史上前所未有的脫貧成就。第二，在中國成為世界領先經濟體之一的同時，中國的發展也促進了其他許多國家的經濟增長，令世界受益。
George Papandreou: One of the major changes is the change to China's economy. Through the introduction of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics – and opening up to the global economy – China has greatly benefited. First of all, in reducing poverty – which although remains an issue - China has achieved the biggest reduction in poverty ever seen in world history. Second, in becoming one of the leading economic nations, China's development has benefited the world because it has assisted the growth of many other countries.
China Focus:中國和希臘，或者更廣泛地說，中國和歐洲在建立良好關係方面面臨哪些機遇和挑戰?
What are the opportunities and challenges that China and Greece face – or more broadly, China and Europe - in building a sound relationship?
帕潘德里歐：我相信，中歐雙邊關係將會進一步發展。歐洲本身就十分贊同多邊主義，支持開放社會、開放經濟和可持續發展。這些想法對中國來說也非常重要。因此，我認為中歐關係可以發展成為更牢固的夥伴關係。
George Papandreou: I believe the bilateral relations between Europe and China are going to develop further. Europe is very much in favor of multilateralism – of an open society, an open economy and sustainable development. These ideas are also very important for China. Therefore, I think Europe and China can develop a very strong partnership.
不過，這其中也存在一些分歧，比如WTO問題和國有企業問題，但我認為我們可以共同努力(克服這些問題)。我相信，“一帶一路”倡議將成為促進21世紀新型中歐關係誕生的催化劑。我們不僅可以通過“一帶一路”建設發展希中雙邊關係，也可以由此進一步升級中歐關係，實現共同繁榮，共享未來發展。
There are also some differences, such as WTO issues and state-owned enterprises, but I think we can work together [to overcome such issues]. I believe that the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) could act as the catalyst for a new relationship between Europe and China in the twenty-first century. From the BRI - which Greece is a strong part of – we can develop bilateral relations not only between Greece and China but also between Europe and China for a shared prosperity and shared future.
China Focus: 中國企業在比雷埃夫斯港的投資為當地民眾帶來了哪些變化？
Chinese companies have invested in the port of Piraeus – what changes has been made to the local people by the investment?
帕潘德里歐： 在我任職總理時希臘正遭遇經濟危機，時任中國總理溫家寶做出了投資希臘的選擇。希臘人民非常感謝中國的信任。這使得具有歷史意義的比雷埃夫斯港得以發展。現在，比雷埃夫斯港逐漸成為整個地中海地區的頭號港口，更發展為中國與歐洲之間的貿易門戶。
George Papandreou:When I was prime minister and Greece was suffering from the financial crisis, the then prime minister of China, Wen Jiabao, chose to invest in Greece. This vote of confidence from China – which the people of Greece are very thankful for – enabled the development of the historical port of Piraeus. As such Piraeus is now becoming the number one port in the entire Mediterranean - a gateway for trade between China and Europe.
2019年1月16日，希臘比雷埃夫斯港。（圖片來源：新華）
在地方層面，這意味著大量的開發和投資。由於比雷埃夫斯港得到了發展，該地現已成為一個很受歡迎的居住地，有不少中國人在比雷埃夫斯或雅典附近購買房產。這促進了對中國文化、產品以及美食在希臘的需求增長。同時，也有更多的中國人瞭解希臘。這是十分積極的方面。
At the local level, this has meant that there is much development and much investment. Piraeus is now becoming a more popular place to live as there is growth, and many Chinese are now buying houses in Piraeus or nearby Athens. This is facilitating a growth in Chinese culture, products and cuisine. Also, there are more Chinese people learning about Greece too. That is a very positive aspect.
對比雷埃夫斯港的投資在希中雙邊關係中十分重要，因為它使得兩國在許多方面都建立了緊密的政治合作。例如，2011年利比亞發生戰亂，兩萬餘名中國工人被困。時任總理溫家寶請我協助中國的救援工作。希臘主動與利比亞內戰雙方聯繫，使得中國撤退人員順利通行，並安全返回中國。雖然是雙邊領域，但我們的合作對全球化的世界也具有重要意義。而這只是其中的一個例子。
The investment in the port of Piraeus has been very important for bilateral relations between Greece and China because it has enabled close political cooperation in many areas. For example, in 2011, when there was the war in Libya –20,000 Chinese workers were trapped in the country. Prime minister Wen Jiabao asked me for help to get the Chinese people out. We took the initiative to speak to both sides, and get the free passage of the Chinese people which we then returned safely to Beijing. This is just one example which shows how cooperation – even at the bilateral level – can be of great importance in this globalizing world.
China Focus: 希臘擁有豐富的旅遊資源，許多中國遊客對希臘有著濃厚的興趣。您認為將來中國遊客赴希臘旅遊是否會更加便利？
Greece has a very rich tourism industry, and many Chinese people are interested to visit. Do you think this will become easier in the future?
帕潘德里歐：首先，我十分支持中國遊客來希臘觀光。我想，希臘是一個美麗的國度，許多中國人也這麼認為。我們有300多座有人居住的島嶼，遊客可以在這些島上領略當地的文化、品味美食和美酒。我們還有數不清的神話故事和獨特的文化傳統。
George Papandreou: I would of course support the tourism of Chinese people to Greece first of all, because I think [Greece] is a beautiful country as many Chinese do also. We have 300 islands inhabited by people with local cultures, foods, and good local wines. We also have a lot of mythology and a unique culture.
希臘聖托里尼島風光
當然，我們現在面臨一個簽證問題。希臘是歐盟成員國，因此我們必須遵循歐盟申根協定中的有關規定。好處就是如果你得到了赴希臘的簽證，那就可以自由暢行歐洲很多國家。如果你得到了其他歐盟國家的簽證，也可以自由來往希臘。
The visa problem is of course one that we face – Greece is part of the EU and as such we have to follow the rules set out in the Schengen agreement. But the benefit is that if you get a visa for Greece, you also get a visa for free travel in all of Europe too. Similarly, if you get a visa from another European country, you can travel freely to Greece.
隨著許多中國人購買希臘的房產，希臘也見證了華人社區的成長。如果在希臘投資25萬美元，你和你的家人就能夠獲得希臘的多年期簽證。這意味著你就能夠在歐洲多個國家自由穿梭。下一步，我想開辦一所可以教授希臘語、中文和英語的學校，教授那些有意來歐洲上大學的中國學生，我希望我的工作能對他們有所幫助。
Greece is also witnessing the growth of a growing Chinese community as many Chinese are now buying property. If you invest $250,000 in Greece, you can get a visa for many years – for your family also. And this means the ability to travel freely throughout Europe. I think the next move – and I hope to be able to help with this – is to build schools which will teach Greek but also Chinese and English in order to enable Chinese students who are preparing to study at a European university.
聽寫 / Jamie Leigh Wright
翻譯 / 蔡海若，董翎依
審校 / 白石
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